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Norman Finkelstein vs Martin Indyk over Gaza and the “Peace Process” 1/8/09 Democracy NOW!

January 11, 2009

Democracy Now  headersee more in NEWS & ANALYSIS 
The Israeli assault on Gaza is entering its thirteenth day. Some 700 Palestinians have been killed, with many thousands more wounded, and a humanitarian crisis is mounting. Ten Israelis have died, four by friendly fire. A ceasefire has not been reached, and the offensive continues. We host a debate between Martin Indyk, the former US ambassador to Israel and Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs during the Clinton administration, director of the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution and author of, Innocent Abroad: An Intimate Account of American Peace Diplomacy in the Middle East, and Norman Finkelstein, author of several books, including The Holocaust Industry, Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict and Beyond Chutzpah.
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4 comments

  1. 1) Finkelstein referred to an “Israel phrase” called “Palestinian Offensive Peace”. Anyone who knows the situation and has been to Israel knows that no Israeli refers to an offensive of peace by the Palestinians. Palestinians have never aggressively promotes peace. Israel has never felt threatened by the Palestinians being “too peaceful”. Israelis dream that Palestinians will drop their terrorist agendas and accept peace in the region.
    2) Finkelstein believes that the burden of responsibility is on Israel to lift a blockade, and that Hamas in response will end missile firings. However, the very reason that Israel has put blockades in Gaza is because the Palestinians have committed incessant rocket firings against Israeli schools and malls. Israel has no self-motivated reason to implement blockades. If Hamas does not want to fire rockets, then why not just stop?
    3) Finkelstein uses the fact that UN votes go against Israel and the US. This is a common claim by defamers of Israel, and it is true- the UN votes do go radically against Israel, with only Israel, the US, and some other supporters voting in Israel’s favor. However, number of votes does not lay claim for moral standards. History is full of instances when majorities oppress minorities and gang up together. The fact that countries in bloc vote against Israel means only that the majority of countries are in disagreement with Israel, nothing more. Voting does not reflect morality or correctness of actions, only accurate analysis can be used to determine morality. It is the accurate analysis that Israel-bashers have problems with, not numbers of supporters.

    On to Azzedine’s stupid post…. I will pick out the most obscene and baseless comments and attack them. This will show (if the words themselves don’t already) that this particular reader doesn’t understand an iota of the issue, and that these very lies are perpetuated very widely.

    1) “they permitted the AIPAC to rule the country”- here the writer of the post asserts that a lobbyist organization that makes no donations and endorses no candidates and employs less than 100 full time employees is running the most powerful country in the world, a country of 300 million people. Use your own logic to work through this one.
    2) “Guys like Indyk do their best to lobby and pave the road in order to supply the Rogue State of Israel with weapons, so they can commit genocide on innocent people, like they are doing right now in Gaza”. Israel is in no way a rogue state. The British Mandate of Palestine was partitioned into 2 states by a UN Resolution- one Jewish, one Palestinian. The Israelis accepted, the Palestinians rejected, and instead went to war along with 5 other Arab nations, claiming that they would “drive the Jews into the sea”. Which one sounds more like a rogue state that commits genocide?
    3) “True Americans should stand op and say “that’s enough, step down” to the Zionists, who took over the country and bore it on a downhill slide that led it staight on the road to bankrupcy”. This is ridiculous, Zionists turned the small strip of previously swampy wasteland that the Palestinians had neglected into a thriving state. Israel is now the Environmentally greenest country in the world, the leading producer of medical and military technology, and its citizens produce more scientific papers per capita than any other country in the world. Is this bankrupt?
    4) “If not, you will be going from one crisis to another, i.e. one Zionist Wailing Wall Street FRAUDE following another, more wars and misery, while the Zionists get more power and get filthy rich, like Don Madoff and the likes.” Here the writer of the post resorts to the age old strategy of blaming the Jews for all wars and for plotting to take over the world. The most obvious problems with the sentence are: a) Zionists (which are people who believe Jews should have a homeland) had nothing to do with any Wall Street recession. This is a most ignorant and blatantly anti-semitic comment. b) Bernie, not Don Madoff, was not a Zionist, nor an Israeli. Him being Jewish had nothing to do with Israelis, nor Zionists. To say Zionists are “bad” or “wrong” because of Madoff is equivalent to saying that all Muslims are evil because some are terrorists, or that all blacks are criminals because of their high crime rate. c) most obviously- the “Zionists” or Jewish community, lost more than anyone else did because of Madoff, because they were the ones who invested in him. Jews did not gain due to the recession, they lost big time.


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  3. Good old and deep honest to the bones, Dr. Norman Finkelstein, here really stripped naked former US Ambassador to the Rogue State Israel, Martin Indyk, and made him swallow his own lies. Guys like Ambassador Martin addicted to power and dishonests are responsible for the many lies to the American people. They have over the years got the USA involved en misdeeds and work more as a fifth column, serving the interests of Israel, than thrue sons of America loyal to the principles and ethic standards that once made the country great. They permitted the AIPAC to rule the country and Congress now foots the bills for Israel with US money from hard working American tax payers.- Guys like Indyk do their best to lobby and pave the road in order to supply the Rogue State of Israel with weapons, so they can commit genocide on innocent people, like they are doing right now in Gaza. True Americans should stand op and say “that’s enough, step down” to the Zionists, who took over the country and bore it on a downhill slide that led it staight on the road to bankrupcy and made Americans accessory to murder. The professors Mearsheimer & Walt were right: “Drop Israel and you will get in shape”. If not, you will be going from one crisis to another, i.e. one Zionist Wailing Wall Street FRAUDE following another, more wars and misery, while the Zionists get more power and get filthy rich, like Don Madoff and the likes.


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